Why is it impossible for a man to decide that he doesn´t want to have a child?

A man who doesn´t do anything to prevent prenancy does have a responsability for the child.

That's the point you´re missing!

Anders

Thanks…

Ok, but let's say the man doesn't or he does but it fails like the condom to tear, for exemple, also the woman can see that the man is not making anything to prevent, the woman can cheat the man saying she is using pills, just for exemple…

The first one who always should be the first responsible one wouldn't be the woman for her own sake and since it's her body???

And my question is about the right of deciding to have or not the child is only of the woman.

For exemple, they both tried to preven, they had condom but it teared and she gets pregnant, she decides ALONE to make an abortion or not, the man can't say 'look, it was an accident and I want you to make an abortion', if he is poor, she could agree to make it, but if he is rich, many women wouldn't make it… do you see the point???

I'm a man. If I don't want a child - why should I not make sure?

I don't think it is right for me to have the right to demand the birth of a child from a woman. Or to demand that a child should be removed. If I have sex with a woman that could lead to a child being born. For me it is so obvious that I must consider that - and take responsibility for it!

I would not give that right away to anyone else if it was my body.

I do see your point, but I don't think you are right…  ;-)

However i would certainly have - and have - taken part of the discussion together with the becomin/or not mother. But the final decision must be hers.

Anders: She wrote that if the man DO USE PROTECTION, like a condom and it "breakes". Dont you think the man did what he should and then should be able to decide the outcome?

I mean just as much as the women. After all, when the baby is born, the man has responebility just like the mother. So why should she decide it all? And the girl can use many different things for protection.

#4 Risc calculation is part of many of lifes decisions. You still have to take the responsibility for what you are doing…

#5 Sure. She also has to take the responsibility.

Counting out violence (rape) noone has to be a parent if you don't want to.

Anders

I'd like you to tell then what the man could do to force the woman to make an abortion when HE doesn't want to be father since you say "none has to be a parent if you don't want to."… the woman can decide alone for the abortion if SHE doesn't want… and the man???

If the woman decides alone to keep the pregnancy, shouldn't the man have the right to say that he doesn't agree and not pay for that?

What I mean it's that both right and obligation should be shared or it seems like a compesation to the woman because nature didn't give the right of the doubt to the humans about who would get pregnant, the woman or the man, if something goes wrong, and then the man must pay for being in a more confortable/safe situation since he never will be the one getting pregnant. 

Look, I'm talking about man and woman who tryed everything to avoid, they were both responsible, but something went wrong and she got pregnant. She has the choice to keep or not the pregnancy, the man hasn't any choice but to be in her hands waiting for her decision.

I'll try to explain better later if you don't understand my point of view yet.

#7 "If the woman decides alone to keep the pregnancy, shouldn't the man have the right to say that he doesn't agree and not pay for that?"

Sorry, a child is not a toy. It is a living human being. If you are the father you are the father. There is no running away.

I understand that there can be a pregnancy although you did not expect that. That's part of life. You still have to live it!

Another side of this coin is that of course the decision should be made after a discussion. Of course the father to be has the right to say his mind. But I cannot accept the right for a man to use the knife on another persons body.

And if the women doesn´t want to have thr baby, but the man want, why should she have all the say.. she could have protected her selft just like the man. Its wrong that she´s the one who decides it all!!

How can I have the right to demand pregnancy and birth of a woman? I have four children - I know something about it…

If you want to discuss the right to abort, and the timing, from a general or ethic point of view - that's another subject.

How can she have the right do keep a baby if he doesn´t?

Anders

For this justification that the woman has all the rights alone and that is morally corret because it's her body, then you think also that would be morally corret if a woman refuses to feed her baby giving the breast or carrying the baby in her arms, I mean natural behaviours of a mother and extremly necessaries to the baby, because it's still her body and it doesn't matter the rights of the baby who has no voice to demand them and still she would argument it's her body, the important is her body and she decides everything about it, without obligations because of this fact, yet the father is paying for his obligations to suport the baby, but then he would also be forced to have the risk of having a child with psychologic problems later because the right of the woman to decide everything about her body.

Do you see that the point is not the body, but rights and obligations are together? My rights end when your rights start and this limit is beyond a simple fact like 'it's my body and period'???

This limit is based on choices/rights for living when you have to respect others taking the consequences/obligations for your choices/rights.

For exemple, for this thought of complete rights about your body, if you steal, you should never be punished with prison because it's your body that is arrested and nobody has the right to demand anything about your body. Even if you kill other body, disrespecting the right of other person about her/his body, but to put your body in prison would be to disrespect your right about your body like a murder makes against others.

If you want all the rights about your body, you carry all the obligations about respecting the rights of others about their bodies and then a man wouldn't have the obligation to pay for supporting the child when the woman decides alone to have the baby because it's his body that works to get the money.

In this case, I accept the woman having the right to decide alone for an abortion even if the man wants the child because the abortion will not create consequences to the man, the choice ends a process without creating obligations.

Dina liknelser är totalt obegripliga för mig. Vad har fängelsestraff med saken att göra?

En abort är ett ingrepp/operation. Att jag skulle kunna kräva att en annan människa opereras för att jag vill slippa ansvaret för det barn jag avlat… Nej, du lyckas inte övertyga mig.

Du tycker tydligen att det enbart är mannen som ska ta sitt ansvar! Då bör man förbjuda abort så att kvinnan tar sitt ansvar.

#14 Frågan om och när en abor ska få göras är också intressant, men ett annat ämne än det som diskuteras här.

"En abort är ett ingrepp/operation. Att jag skulle kunna kräva att en annan människa opereras för att jag vill slippa ansvaret för det barn jag avlat… Nej, du lyckas inte övertyga mig."

hmmmmmmm

Även om själva abortfrågan är ett annat ämne, påverkar den även denna fråga. Abort är ingen okomplicerad fråga etiskt. Detta förstärker bara det orimliga i att ge en annan människa rätt att kräva det.

Ur den synpunkten blir det rimligare att tänka sig att mannen skulle få vetorätt om kvinnan vill abortera. Den invändningen får mig dock inte att ändra ståndpunkt.

Anders

It was an extremely exemple to show what could happen if you start justifying based on simple facts like 'the body is mine and period' without seeing the complete process, causes and consequences, rights and obligations, as 2 sides of the same coin.

The man will be 'arrested' in a situation which he had no right to decide. (remeber: I'm talking about man and woman who tryed everything to avoid, they were both responsible, but something went wrong and she got pregnant.)

The criminal had the choice to decide to make the crime or not, to be arrested is just a consequence.

It's ok, it's not my intention to convince you or anybody. It's just to leave diferent point of views here that people can read and make their own minds.